Developer getting cold feet

[donroberto]

the AI difficulty of the microscope puzzle was next to (if not completely) impossible.

According to the licensees, plans are to review the original puzzles and replace some of them with better or less difficult puzzles. I have my own list of ones that I thought were not as successful as I would have liked.

So please all, do share your own thoughts about that. Which puzzles did you think we could do without on the next go round?

[Tenka]

In T7G:

Fix/Change:
Shuffle Puzzle in the Toy Room - Very Very Irritating .. not so challenging either.
Piano Puzzle - Mainly a problem due to limitations with gfx/whatever at the time i think, its hard to press the right notes easily making the puzzle frustrating to complete.
Card Puzzle/ Coin Puzzle - kinda the same puzzle twice? Room for improvement here. Keep one of them though.
The Bishop Puzzle - Doesnt need to be removed just done with faster animations .. puzzles like this where you will be racking your brains for hours need to keep pace with your immediate ideas.. having long drawn out animations for each move was very irritating. Other than that though it was a good puzzle .. and it should stay.

Must Keep:
The Microscope puzzle ..
Queens on the Chessboard.
The Maze.

[nemo88]

These are the things I would suggest dropping:

- either the coin or card puzzle; nursery or doll room puzzle. The other puzzles are nice, even if not personal favorites.


Things to definitely keep, if not improve:

- I never really appreciated the maze puzzle until fairly recently, realizing just how brilliant it is. Of course, you could always add more to the scenery.
- The library hints. I've always appreciated Trilobyte's philosophy on completing a game. Having the book in the library also disocuraged me from actually using it too often.

Other suggestions:

- I've always liked the idea of the house being "alive" and I recall reading somewhere about having the upstairs rooms rearrange. I thought it would be neat if the shape and arrangement (and therefore the order of doors) of the corridor could change from time to time during game-play.
- I always thought the attic could be larger, maybe with levers, cogs, chains and weights to suggest the idea that the house is mechanical, to further blur the line between the natural and supernatural affects of the house.

[Rh_FAUST]

Ahhh... Cold Feet...mmmmmmm; been a Big problem for me too.  Send that "Developer" by to see me.  Actually he'll have to dig me up; but I'd be soooooo Pleased to help warm up his tootsies. Maybe, build a little Fire under 'em...

He can drop in on me any time.

Henry

[donroberto]

He can drop in on me any time.

I will insist on it!

[Bones]

Let's go through the puzzles:

- The telescope puzzle (library): Fun to play, but only once as was mentioned before in this thread. Also graphically kind of flat compared to the rest
- The cake puzzle (dining room): Classic and one of the most memorable of the bunch. The beauty is that there are multiple solutions. It's one I revisit often.
                                            Visually it's also very nicely done. It's also never frustrating or long.
- The can puzzle (kitchen):       An interesting puzzle. And I know I had a wonderful afternoon with a couple of friends trying to crack it. But since neither of us
                                            lived in an english speaking country our chances of solving the puzzle were practically zero. Also after the solution is known there
                                            is little incentive to play it again.
- The roster (the maze):           This is a standard sliders-style puzzle. It's a short and easy one. But I'm usually annoyed by this inclusion in games since it's hardly original.
                                            I solve these kinds of puzzles by just hammering through without much strategy, just persistence and little sense of accomplishment when it's solved.
- The cases (crypt):                This mechanic is the same as the Stauf painting and the puzzle box in the doll room and in the secret room, so I'm gonna group them. I liked these puzzles.
                                            For me it hits the sweet spot where the puzzle objective is clear, but the solution is not. It also shouldn't take that many moves to complete it,
                                            which is why you're tempted to go on with the feeling that the solution is always a couple of mouse clicks away.
- Spiders (front door):               This is a puzzle that is largely based on a trick and after you know it's an easy one. But its a nice one nevertheless. Not too long or frustrating and great
                                            as an addition.
- Queens (game room):             One of my favorites. I can list the same advantages as the cake puzzle. It's also a fast puzzle in the sense that the result of your move is on the board in
                                            barely two seconds.
- Blood (Heine room):               For some reason this one always seemed a bit different, maybe because in the end there aren't that many possibilities, making the puzzle solveable by just
                                           mindless trail and error. Also if you know the trick (SPOILER: working backwards) than it really becomes easy. Also the flatness of the puzzle (no 3d) made
                                           it feels like a less than avarage puzzle.
- Letters on the bed (Burden):  Although this is another puzzle based on wordplay this one was never hard. Maybe because in the end the number of choices is not that great, if you managed
                                           Y-O-U then you probably will pick the R as well. Not my favorite by any stretch, but still nice enough especially since the solution is such a gloomy prediction.
                                           It's a small thing, but sometimes they have a big effect.
- Bishops (Knox room):            Amazing. The goal is clear, the board isn't that big, but it's tricky as hell. All the time you feel that the solution is staring you in the face. You will continue and
                                          will come back to this one.
- Coins (Dutton room):            This one is the same as the card puzzle in Temple's room. These two I liked as well. It may not be spectacular looking or ominous. But it's fast and allows the player
                                          to try several strategies to crack it. And thematically it suited the room and the guest. Although this fact may be lost on a lot of players.
- Floor tiles (chapel):             Of all the puzzles this may be the least succesful in my opinion. The reason being that I never properly understood how to solve it, but I did it in one or two tries anyway.
                                          Even if you don't know what you're doing you can reach the end because there aren't that many paths to follow.
- Microscope (lab):                This is the big one. Feared by all. It's not a new type of puzzle, but it is notorious because of the AI. And it may be too hard when compared with the target audience and
                                          the other puzzles, but in defence I'd like to add that no puzzle was required to be solved to get to the end and also the day I beat the AI was a very memorable one.
                                          And I'm not that bright, so other people should be able to crack it as well.
- Piano (music room):             Not a favorite. The reason being that it's based on memory and punishment is severe. There's no strategy. It's just following the notes and remembering them. If you're
                                          tonedeaf that's probably a drawback. But in any case if you make one mistake you're back to square one. And then the puzzle because a long chore.
- Horsing around (bathroom):   A similar puzzle to the Bishop puzzle, although less fun. This because you have to click a lot while it seems that there is little to do then to fill one spot and then the next and the next.
                                          But the 2d picture morphing into the 3d model remains awesome.
- Knives (attic door):              A nice one, you get quick results but if your not careful you have to start again. But even then you're quickly to where you were but hopefully with a new strategy.
- Tower (attic):                    This one never did it for me. You had to find the hidden connections between the windows to predict the result of the next move. I just clicked on windows sooner or later
                                          I got to the top. But it was never rewarding. I couldn't be bothered in figuring it out, probably since randomly clicking made pretty decent results anyway.
                                          The same thing is sort of true for a similar puzzle in t11h (the cube in Temple's room). Only that felt more difficult, although I still muddled on.
                                          It is nice though that it mimics your travel through the mansion, getting on top in the end. It's just too bad that the puzzle itself isn't climactic enough.
                                          Something that was greatly improved upon in t11h when it pits you against Stauf himself.

And there you have it. Hopefully this is meaningful info.
I'd also like to write a more general post about the entire game.
But not now, it's time for bed.

Bones

[donroberto]

Bones, thanks much for your comprehensive review of the 7th Guest puzzles. This type of post should be invaluable for the enhanced remake, which, by the way, I am informed is back on track (more or less).

[Bones]

Glad you liked the review. And it's good to hear the remake is back on track. In whatever shape that may be.

Bones

[Tenka]

... This type of post should be invaluable for the enhanced remake, which, by the way, I am informed is back on track (more or less).

WOW! Awesome! I cant wait!

[amars464]

So this is going to be kind of a weak first post, so maybe I'll pop in and add to it when it's not 6:30 AM.
Anyways, I just wanted to say that I have The 7th Guest up and running on ScummVM on my Wii (don't worry guys, I got the data files from the actual CDs from back when I was a youngin') and it works like a dream on that console. A remake of that game would work extremely well on Nintendo's platforms, seeing how they both utilize some sort of pointing device (The Wii has the remote, and the DS has the stylus). Just food for thought as far as that's concerned. I really hope this works out. T7G is one of my all time favorite games.

[Bones]

Wow...that's pure awesome.
Congratulations.

Paul "Bones" van der Meer

[Pedrith]

Just discovered this forum today.  I really enjoyed playing the 7th guest on my old mac before it died.  I hope that if it and the 11th hour, or any new game for that matter would be for both pc and macs.

David

[cherylislverweb]

I hope that the developers' feet warm up. I believe that there are enough collectors and fans out there who would purchase a remake in addition to a third installment. Especially true if you market the together as other game companies have done. From a personal perspective I would purchase a new copy of both 7th Guest and 11th hour and the third (or all three at one time) when they come out. I have -- as many others most likely do -- the original two games when the were first released. I prefer 7th/11th and similar games to the newer adventure games which have a lot of blood and violence. I miss the puzzles.

[donroberto]

It was a bit inaccurate to name this post "Developer getting cold feet". The developer is actually still quite enthusiastic about the project. It seems their financial partners were the ones who pulled back for a while. Since I first started this thread, the remake has been chugging along, although perhaps not at full steam ahead. I've seen the working design document, an early demo and some stills of the new Stauf mansion, and it looks like if they stick to their plan, this won't just be a re-release, but will be a much improved remake. "New and improved", "bigger and better" as they say in the ad biz.

And yes, the plan is that it will be developed for all the major platforms. We shall see.

[infinitysend]

Hey there Rob!  Very long-time fan of the 7th Guest (since I was 13, I think?  I'm 28 now).  This news makes me *EXTREMELY* happy.  I am very VERY excited to play this remake. 
I'm a recent graduate from Guildhall at SMU in Plano, TX.  We were visited by Mr. Sanger a few months ago.  That was pretty awesome... will he be scoring the music for the remake?

I am actually planning on recreating the Stauf Mansion in UT3 once I get some time... don't know when that'll happen though.  Any possible chance on getting me a list of all the famous paintings throughout the house?